Back in March 2011 we covered the story of Breaker Brewing Co.’s move to their new property at the former St Joseph’s Monastery property at 783 E Northampton St in Wilkes-Barre Twp. You can take a peek back at the original story, the zoning story (here or here) and the zoning results. While the zoning was unanimously APPROVED at that time by the Wilkes-Barre Twp. zoning board, one nearby neighbor, Edward Collum chose to appeal the zoning results.
At the recent appeal hearing, the Luzerne County Court of Common Pleas judge David Lupas remanded the order back to the Wilkes-Barre Zoning Hearing board for any further testimony as to why it is not feasible to use the property as residential.
LOTS of interesting details here, but what you need to know is that on Feb 14th at 7PM at the Wilkes-Barre Twp. municipal building (150 Watson St. MAP/Directions) the zoning board will again hear further testimony on the approval of their 11-month old zoning APPROVAL.
What you also need to know is that while neighbor Edward Collum claimed in the original hearing that his home was 4-feet from what would be the brewery building, a subsequent survey shows it is actually 40-feet. As if all of this isn’t enough to get you to come out and show support for this hearing and for Breaker Brewing there’s one more piece of information you should know. Edward Collum has since SOLD HIS HOUSE AND MOVED yet he has chosen to continue the appeal of the zoning approval…
On a personal note it’s very frustrating to see one FORMER-resident causing these sort of delays and expenses for everyone. Breaker Brewing Co is a wonderful addition to the Wilkes-Barre Twp. community, and I’m disappointed to see this process going on again. On a related note and as testament to how involved Mark & Chris already are in their new community, the guys are donating the beer for the Benefit for Lila to be held this Saturday at the Wilkes-Barre Twp. Fire Hall.
Please take the time to come out and show your love for Breaker Brewing on 2/14 AND for the Benefit for Lila on 2/11 as well.
UPDATE:
For those that have NOT read the comments for this thread, now would be a good time to do so. I heard from Mark & Chris today and as you can see they are removing the inscription that Mrs Collum was so concerned about. As it turns out the letters were only decals and as the weather warms up they will be painting that area as well. 
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My son Edward Collum was born and raised in this community. I, his mother was born and raised in this community. My 91 year old mother was born and raised in this community.You know nothing about my son or my family.As far as the distance of his property, he was misinformed when he bought the house that the property was 4 feet from the church property.He was lied to by the former owners of the house and believed the real estate agent. But that's besides the point. His house was still right next to the school building which is now going to be a brewery.And he has every right to protest. He's a single father who is raising my 10 year old granddaughter on his own and just wanted a safe and peaceful environment to raise her.He bought a house next to a church, not a brewpub. He never bashed Chris or Mark. He was just doing what was right by his daughter.There was never any malice on his part.As far as the appeal goes, it was already in progress when he sold his house to a friend of Mark and Chris. There's so much I could say about the first zoning board hearing and the bias going on, but I'm not going to go there. I resent your personal attack on my son.
ReplyDeleteThanks for replying Mrs Collum. As you can see I don't censor or ignore any of the comments on this site. I know it is safe to say that those of us who know Mark & Chris, would welcome them into our community, whether it was 4-feet or 40-feet from my home. I know what kind of people they and their families are, I know how good they will be for WB Twp (or any community), and I'd have no reservations if they moved in next door to me right now. I realize you have lived in WB-Twp a longime and I realize there are those who would prefer that the church remained a church and nothing in the neighborhood changes. The decision to sell the property AND ensure it will no longer be a church, was not made by Mark or Chris...it as made by the former owners. I understand your son may not have been aware of the actual property lines when he said what he said at the hearing. I also understand that he would prefer the property remain a church and I certainly understand he is doing what he thinks is best for his daughter. I don't think anyone is debating that. Please also understand there is no personal attack on your son by me or anyone else that I'm aware of. The facts here are public record and I personally sat through every minute of the original zoning hearing, including your son's testimony and your husband's testimony. I'm also aware of the new buyer for your son's former home and I can tell you I actually found out about it before Mark or Chris even knew...so no; he is not a "friend of Mark & Chris" as you would categorize it. I'll leave it to you to state what you think the biases were in the original zoning hearing. As I said, I watched in detail the entire process; including everything leading up to the hearing and everything subsequent to the hearing, and I don't see the bias so feel free to fill us in. As far as the appeal being started before your son decided to move, it's my non-legal impression that he can drop the appeal at any time, but again I'm not a lawyer so I'll take your word that he has no choice at this point but to pursue it.
ReplyDeleteI realize you have family involved in this situation and I realize you would prefer the property remain as a church rather than a micro-brewery. No one would blame you for either. Please also understand that those of use who know Mark & Chris, KNOW that they will be nothing but good for the Wilkes-Barre Twp community and a welcome addition to any neighborhood and FAR better that the property remaining vacant or any of the other alternatives likely to take root there.
If I've misspoken in ANY way, please feel free to reply and I will happily publish your comments.
the part about the new owner of the house being "friends" with Mark and Chris...I only repeated what the real estate agent stated to Eddie. Maybe she's wrong again as she was about the property line. As far as us expecting the building to remain a church, that's not it at all. The truth of the matter is that we don't feel it's appropriate to raise a little girl next to a brewpub.There are other alternatives for the vacant building and not all are bad alternatives.(community center, recreation center, senior citizens center etc.) I'm sure someone else will be very happy in the house nextdoor to a brewery.It's just not what we want for our little girl.As far as the bias,I prefer not to go there right now.I'd have to mention names and I don't think that would be wise. I appreciate that you posted my comments.
ReplyDeleteThank you. It's unfortunate what you've been told by the real estate agent in both examples. I realize that there may be "better alternatives," but I also know there wasn't a buyer with any of those options in mind and the likelihood was far worse. I also realize in reading your reply that your vision of a brew-pub & brewery is not necessarily the reailty of what that means today. Having visited breweries & brew-pubs all over the world, I can tell you with first-person experience that they are 1st class members of their local communities and do many thing to support local charities and families. These are not nightclubs and certainly not opening for the hours that many of your existing bars in WB are already open for. Mark & Chris have familes and children and are certainly sensitive to becoming an asset to the WB Twp community and not a liability. If you have any doubt...go to google and type in "brewery charity" and you'll see what I mean. These are good guys that want nothing but the best for their community & neighborhood. I hope in time you will all realize that.
ReplyDeleteIt would be wonderful if every vacant building could be filled with as you said "a community center, rec center or senior citizens center". However, it is my understanding that none of those mentioned were interested. Perhaps you would have been happy if a Methodone Clinic, drug rehab or a homeless shelter would have occupied the building. Your son is no longer living there, why do you continue to cause problems for nice people that are only trying to make a living? They are planning to turn the building into a reputable business run by respectable people.
ReplyDeleteI don't live in Wilkes-Barre Twp., but I have been following the progression of Breaker Brewing Company and how it is evolving into a small business that represents hard work and is a great addition to the surrounding community. I guess what I am not following is how this individual can continue with any legal issues when he no longer lives near the brewery. I know that anyone involved in such a proceeding can opt to drop the case; especially because the person no longer lives near the property in question. Sounds like sour grapes to me. It is nice that the guy is looking out for his family, but from what I understand, I believe both of the brewers also have young kids, so I am sure they know about running a family friendly business. To Breaker Brewing Company I say cheers....keeping making great beer!
ReplyDeleteThanks anon...There are certainly lots of less-desireable alternatives. I agree that Mark & Chris are running a business and making a living for their families with a reputable business. I'm not sure "causing problems" accurately characterizes the motives involved here. Everyone involved has a strong opinion, BUT we need to be respectful of everyone's opinion whether we agree or not. I truely believe everyone involved will see what great guys I know Mark & Chris are and how wonderful BBC will be for WB Twp. Time will tell but I'm confident in the end everyone will be happy.
ReplyDeleteThanks AGreen. I can tell you from a legal standpoint that Ed DOES have the legal standing to continue his appeal. Whether or not he can drop it now that he's moved...I don't know. Yes both Mark & Chris have young children and YES I know they and their families will definitely become part of the WB Twp community. I'm confident BBC will be nothing but an asset in the Twp....mark my words!
ReplyDeleteEd did what he thought was "right" for his daughter and moved out. END OF STORY! MOVE ON! What is all this nonsense complaining about what the church "should" or "could" be, and then bringing in the new neighbors? Name dropping and board bias should be the least of your worries as far as deciding what is "wise" of you to comment or say. Let these guys go already.
ReplyDeleteCheers to BBC:)
when he bought the house, he bought it next to a church, not a brewery, the mothers words. she should direct her anger at the diocese of scranton, instead of the new business that is there now. i've lived in this neighborhood almost all of my life and welcome bbc. john fedor.
ReplyDeleteThanks Reagal...I think we're all ready to see this whole process move forward without blaming anyone for their motives. It's time to make it right...
ReplyDeleteTo Mrs. Collum, You say you dont want your granddaughter to grow up next to a "BrewPub". I believe whether you grow up next to a BrewPub or a Convent, what really matters is what is taught in the home, THATS what counts. I personally think it's awful that a small business trying to succeed in this economic climate is now having to dish out more money for ANOTHER hearing. Not to mention the tax dollars this is causing. As far as your son's house is concernced,get the facts! Shame on him for not knowing where his property line is, thats nobody's fault but HIS OWN! He should get all the facts before making a judgment about what the "BrewPub" would be, but as it shows with the house he bought he doesnt do his homework!
ReplyDeletewhen he bought the house, he bought it next to a church, not a brewery, the mothers words. she should direct her anger at the diocese of scranton, instead of the new business that is there now. i've lived in this neighborhood almost all of my life and welcome bbc. john fedor.
ReplyDeleteThanks John...
ReplyDeleteThanks Anon....
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletePlease everyone keep in mind that Breaker Brewing Co celebrates the history of coal mining in NEPA...their hard work and perserverence shouldn't be lost on any of us...and while we ultimately want what is best for our families...we also realize what is best for our community.
ReplyDeleteMy son took the word of the real estate agent and the former owners as far as the property line goes. He did do his homework. He trusted people.I'm not directing anger towards anybody. "trying to cause problems for nice people who are trying to make a living" is like me saying the brewery owners are "trying to cause problems for nice people trying to live peacefully".
ReplyDeletemy grandfather, godfather, and uncles were hard working miners in this community. My uncle was injured in the mines and spent the last years of his life in a wheelchair.
ReplyDeleteMy name is Kyle Fedor and I too have generations of family in the Georgetown community. As well as the "old" Laural Run community. I know what St. Joe's meant to W-B TWP and I agree with Bill that Mark and Chris will be an asset to it. I was at the zoning hearing also. If there was any bias at the hearing(this is just my opinion) it was on the Collums part. Because they seemed to not want to hear Mark and Chris's side. I don't know the legal side of this issue, but I don't understand how a former resident can still appeal a boards decision when he is no longer living in that township. Good luck to the BBC and I hope to walk through the doors of St. Joe's in the near future.
ReplyDeleteThanks everyone. I'm just catching back up on comments this morning. I think there is certainly a lot of passion from everyone involved but I thank everyone for remaining respectful. It is my hope that this works out for everyone and I'm confident it will. I did check and from what I understand that Ed DOES have standing to appeal this decision even though he no longer lives in the township. Please do stay tuned for details as this progresses.
ReplyDeleteas far as listening to Mark's and Chris's side, we listened to everything they had to say.They had a lawyer and had the floor for a long time and we listened.The expense was mentioned here. Do you all think this didn't come at a financial and emotional expense to our family? Do you think we're sitting back and laughing and enjoying all of this? Nobody here will ever understand the "other" side of this obviously. As far as going back generations here, my grandparents came here from Ireland and Poland in the 1800's and our families remained here since. Most of them went to the school for the eight years and received their sacraments in the church. This doesn't have any bearing on any of this but I see it was mentioned by other posters.My son, an eagle scout, planted the trees you see at the entrance to the town. He color coded all of the fire hydrants of the town, not that this will mean anything to any of you.We pay our taxes and live in the community and therefore have a say in anything that affects the community. You don't have to like it.But our feelings should not be taken as an attack.
ReplyDeleteKyle, agreed. The last zoning board meeting was a little ridiculous. Everything that made sense among Chris or Mark and among the board- the Collum family refuted or argued on. I can't wait to see the results of this one. I'm not even going since my bp will go through the roof based on nonsense. All Mark and Chris want to do is continue on and get their business going full speed!
ReplyDeleteI have one more thing to say...to the poster who said the "Collums" are the bias ones,you must not have listened to my or my son's heartfelt and sincere testimonies at the first hearing. I even said that this was nothing personal and that Mark and Chris seem to be nice young men.My husband on the other hand did not keep his emotions in check and I do not agree with the way he handled himself although I totally understand where he was coming from. I didn't intend to make this forum a battle ground. And I thank you for letting me voice my opinion.
ReplyDeleteI'm a mybeerbuzz follower and thought I'd jump in on this issue. I guess the question is why is someone who is anti-microbreweries following a beer blog? She is not looking for trouble, but.........
ReplyDeleteAnyway, keep up the good work beer buzz, and best of luck to the Breaker guys.
We all know that an appeal can be dropped at anytime. It's a shame that a former resident will still push an issue that doesn't affect them anymore. Obviously it shows the true character of this person. Hopefully a unanimous approval AGAIN will put this to rest once and for all, and let a true asset to the community come in.
ReplyDeleteEveryone is certainly welcome here and I think it's absoutely appropriate for Mrs Collum to defend her position and her son's position. Yes this is a blog dedicated to craft beer so the positions and comments you are much more likely to hear will be from people in support of Mark & Chris. I DO know Ed has legal standing to appeal despite his relocation and I cannot confirm if he actually CAN drop the appeal at this point now that it is remanded back to the zoning board for another hearing.
ReplyDeleteClearly everyone involved here is passionate about their family members regardless of what side of the appeal you may be on. Please do keep the comments respectful.
I'm confident the outcome will be good for everyone and I'm confident that as Wilkes-barre Twp gets to know Mark & Chris, they will realize what an asset they & Breaker Brewing Co will be to their local community.
I do thank everyone for commenting...please do keep them coming.
ok, the attacks are now getting personal, something I made sure not to do. "true characters" are showing.Im not "antimicrobrewery" as long as it's not right in my granddaughter's back yard. I have to agree though, I have no business bothering anyone on this blog with my feelings.What made me think people would try to understand the other side of this?
ReplyDeletePaulTiny you are so right, so there is no personal attacks to Chris and Mark, and clearly Mrs. C is anti breweries anywhere in a residential area... but you are still posting and going on about your son and the financial hardships...on a microbrew website! Once again, your son is out of the twp and I am sure dealt with some extra financial expenses but the BBC guys are too...B/C of your son! Enough is enough! I'm sure your son will plant trees in his new community and will be so happy! Funny he's not posting to defend himself??!!
ReplyDeleteBBC all the way!!!
Keep it nice guys and NOT personal. Mrs C has every right to have an opinion and position here or anywhere else. Yes the opinions here are likely to be pro-beer but there is passion on both sides. To be fair lets stick to the facts I DO think Mrs C will see what great guys these are and that the brewery is a good thing in the long run but I do understand her wish to protect her family.
ReplyDeleteI think people are trying to understand the other side. I think we also wish to see Mark & Chris be able to move forward and hope that they can.
you're right reagelbeagle, he's not posting to defend himself. He's above all that. But me being a mother, lowered myself to your level in order to defend him. This is my last post which will make you very happy.But my son won't be planting trees in his "new community". Georgetown will always be his community.Thanks mybeerbuzz for this opportunity. You've been very courteous and I do appreciate it.
ReplyDeleteThank you and feel free to post any time. I do appreciate you taking the time to respond with your position...and yes people do have strong opinions and keep in mind this is a website devoted to promoting and advancing craft beer....so I would expect you to be fighting this fight alone and I appreciate that you did. I hope in time your family will get a chance to meet and get to know Mark & Chris (and their families) and over time I'm confident you'll see how good Breaker Brewing Co will be for the Georgetown community.
ReplyDeleteThanks to Beer Buzz for bringing the truth of this situation to light. Those who know Chris and Mark realize how hard they both work in conjunction with the great help and effort of their family and friends. Not only is BBC an asset to the community and a great tribute to our rich coal mining heritage, but it is a small business that will lead to the eventual addition of jobs to the area. Basically a win/win for everyone. It is great to see such passionate banter about beer, family and the community in this forum. But as for facts, I can tell you that there are no ill effects resulting from the presence of a brewery, the brewing process or having both within close proximity to homes. Actually, my 4 & 7 year old boys have a first hand look at the positive results of all of the hard work poured into this business venture. Family friendly, safe environment and a great product! All of this I can attest to.....our house is attached to the current brewing location. Thanks to all who support BBC; it is greatly appreciated! Cheers!
ReplyDeleteMrs. Collum. My name is Kyle Fedor and I am the one who posted about the "bias". Yes my opinion was based mostly on your husbands reaction. I respect your post about the way he handled himself. I too have let my emotions get the better of me and I understand that this is a sensitive issue for everybody. However, I did hear your son testimony and I felt it was a little over the top. I aslo felt that a fair compromise was reached regarding his statements. There are worse fates a ten year old child can grow up with. I also resent your comment about "nobody will ever understand the other side of this". It seems we have a hard time understanding what the big deal is. Was it okay for people to come and go during bazaar events. Beer was being served. It seems like yowere fine with all of this as long as the property was a cchurch. And nowI that it'sI not a church.... I understand your son was an outstanding member of Georgetown. And I believe that is what the BBC want to do. Mrs. Collum, please don't take my opinions as a personal attack. I am only trying to discuss both sides. I WOULD like
ReplyDeleteTo understand your sons side. I hope you will post again so I can have a better veiw of it.
This issue demonstrates the lack of respect for private property in this country. The whole idea of a "zoning" board is ridiculous. In a truly free society, if someone buys a piece of property, they have the right to do whatever they wish with their OWN PROPERTY as long as they do not infringe on the rights of others. If they subsequently damage a neighboring property or infringe on other people's rights, there is a legal system in place to deal with that. Why should a neighbor, or a local, state, or federal government be able to tell you what you may or may not do with your OWN PROPERTY. Do you really own the propety at this point? We are all free to move to a new place if we do not like our neighborhood anymore, and it seems the former neighbor has already done so, but still isn't willing to withdraw his complaint! Hopefully this bogus zoning hearing will result in justice for the brewing entrepreneurs (but I'm not holding my breath). This area desperately needs more people like them. It is a shame that positive, hard-working people, who are willing to risk their capital on a business venture face not only onerous government regulations, but petty opposition like this. Again, this area needs more entrepreneurs like Chris and Mark (and more brewpubs!)--Please assist them and don't discourage them! -a lover of liberty in the Wyoming Valley
ReplyDeleteI should have signed: a lover of liberty AND finely-brewed beer in the Wyoming Valley
ReplyDeleteJust for the record. The new owner of the house never said he was friends with mark and chris. Just that he knows associates of theirs and heard they were good guys.
ReplyDeleteThanks Kyle
ReplyDeleteI'd love to see neighbors just get along and find a way to work out their differences without hearings & law enforcement, but sadly it doesn't always work. Since there is considerable doubt, I will find out tonight if the case can or cannot be dropped at this point and report the official word back here. Thanks again everyone. I'm glad to see we can all discuss this without it getting disrespectful. Cheers to that.
ReplyDeleteI raise a pilsner to the new neighbors for no complaints! Cheers!
ReplyDeleteObviously the "church property" is zoned commercial. There are no guarantees in life that a "good" family will always live next door. Things change. If the township felt that there would be a problem with a Brewery in their neighborhood they would have ruled against it. It appears that there is only one family that is causing a problem or expressing their concern. Doesn't anyone else live in that neighborhood?
ReplyDeleteThe first thing the new owners should have done was to remove ALL religious artifacts... As I drive by each day, I wonder what exactly are they waiting for?
ReplyDeleteSo let's correct a few things here. The property is zoned resedential (R2 or R3)...not commercial. It was a monastery as well as a church...so be careful when you say obviosly. The Township rules based on testimony, so they can't simply rule against (OR for) something. Yes there were neighbors that testified in favor of BBC so yes there are others in the neighborhood in favor of BBC. The diosese DID remove ALL religious artifacts that they wanted to. There were stained glass windows in several doors that were not removed because they would have compromised how weather-proof the building was. Otherwise everything that the previous owners of the building wanted to take or needed to take were removed. Anything else they left behind I would consider non-religious...otherwise they would have taken the time & opportunity to remove them. Are you thinking that BBC somehow had some responsibility to remove religious artifacts? That responsibility lies with the FORMER owners.
ReplyDeleteSo when you drive by each day and wonder what exactly WHO is waiting for do to WHAT...please fill in some details. Do you have some expectation that BBC should be removing something or are you asking what BBC is waiting for to move in? With first-hand experience, I can tell you the church removed everything they wanted to take AND left all sorts of stuff that they didn't want to take.
ReplyDeleteSo I officially checked and the appeal can only be "dropped" if the complaintant either doesn't show for the hearing RO shows up and files no additional complaints. So technically he can't just drop the case, BUT he can decide to not persue it.
ReplyDeleteSorry...horiffic spelling in my replies. Typing on my phone keyboard is not terribly conducive to correct spelling....hopefully you know what I mean.
ReplyDeleteIn 1961 the construction of Interstate 81 leveled 104 homes in the Hollow section of Georgetown. Some were family owned businesses, as well as the Georgetown Community House. At the time, it was argued that this ripped out the very heart of our community.
ReplyDeleteIn 1991 the WB TWP Jr/Sr HIgh School was closed; another piece of our history gone.
The Ash Street School and the Pennsylvania Belt and Buckle factory eventually met the fate of the wrecking ball. Two more pieces of our towns history gone forever.
Then came the closing of St Joseph's Church. One of the last remaining connections to our community and history. Even if you were not a member, everyone holds fond memories of the building and the surrounding grounds.
In comes Breaker Brewing Company. I cannot speak enough to the character of Chris and Mark. I had the pleasure of working with both of them for a few years at a former employer. These are top notch gentlemen, hard workers, and family men. Men who have not forgotten our area's rich heritage and are paying homage to it, specifically, Coal Miners. Some of those very same Coal Miners built and lived in the same homes we do today. Some risked their lives, and some died for their families.
This may be Georgetown's last chance to preserve a piece of our towns history before it is gone forever. And at the same time, celebrate our area's heritage.
I stand behind BBC's move to Georgetown. I welcome them with open arms…and a raised glass.
Cheers BBC! Welcome to Georgetown!
Larry Clews
Willow St.
Georgetown
Sadly, you'll always have neighbors who find something to complain about, and some who have a long history of doing so. But in the end, truth will prevail and will allow these guys to continue what they are doing. Hopefully everyone can move on. Side note....the guys allowed me to take a tour of the property and believe me, the Diocese removed ever last religious item. Etched glass doors could not be removed as of yet, that would only allow vandals or trespassers access. Oh, and thanks to the guys for donating to the fundraiser today. Hopefully we will see continued contributions to the community.
ReplyDeleteWell said Larry. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteI agree Gtown Friend. The Diocese took everything they wanted or could take and seemed to only leave behind things like the two doors you mention and quite a few things in my opinion they should have taken but didn't....like old furniture and some junk.
ReplyDeleteHi. Sorry, it's me, Mrs. C. again. I know. I wasn't going to post anymore. lol But I just wanted to say that as far as being neighbors who have a "history of complaining"...that's not us. And if anyone knows the location, they would know that Eddie's house is the only one right next to the property. And as you know he was under the impression that the property which he considered his yard belonged to him and it was right along the school building. He and his family used that side yard alot since the other property is just a steep hill. So the other neighbors wouldn't have the same issues. As far as the religious articles (which by the way, I didn't post, since we both have the same name "anonymous" lol)I had an issue with the inscription "My God, My All" with a drawing of the Holy Spirit, inside the church when a beer demonstration took place(right under it). All it would have taken was a paint brush, a can of paint, and five minutes of time or even a cloth hung over it until there was more time to do the inside to the owner's liking. I don't know if it's still there. As far as the etched glass doors being removed only to allow trespassers access...new doors could stop that.When the rooms were remodeled for artist studios the doors could have been replaced then.Two large white crosses remain on the outside of the church which should not remain. They're a symbol of refuge and God's presence to be seen from miles around. I think it should have been the Diocese of Scranton to take care of this matter actually before the property changed hands. And I'm trying to get them to do so.
ReplyDeleteFor someone who has no interest in the beer industry, it is odd how they acquired pictures of a beer demonstration. Hmmmm....not looking for trouble, but.........just sayin'.........maybe the trespassers are ones taking pictures so close to the property.
ReplyDeleteDear Mrs. C,
ReplyDeleteI recently visited the artist studios...they are not in the church. Also, I think they are a great addition to the township. Very talented artists! I hope we see more of that. Is there a chance the brewery will ever have some sort of coal mining display? That would be great.
Gtownfriend. just curious. Who said I "acquired" pictures? I have no pictures taken by any trespassers, I can assure you. And of course, you're not "looking for trouble" with your snide comment, are you? Just sayin!
ReplyDeleteWell, Mrs. C. now you are trying to tell the Diocese of Scranton what to do. If they were so interested or concerned, I would think that they would have done it when they no longer occupied the property. You say that you are not a constant complainer. You are still complaining. I know these people, and they are respectable, church going people. Did it ever occur to you that they may not have the funds right now to do all you suggested. If you are so concerned about "My God, My All" why didn't you ask if you could paint over it. GET A LIFE and let them get on with theirs. This is a situation that no longer affects you.
ReplyDeleteActually Gtown friend; there were many pictures posted on Facebook & elsewhere of the Teach a Friend to Home brew event held @ Breaker so no one would have to tresspass to see photos. I guess I don't really see how brewing beer in a former church is at all disrespectful to the church or to anyone's religion. Trappist Monks have been brewing beer on church properties for centuries but I guess everyone has their own beliefs. The event held in the former church was an education event and attracted a lot of people to the community. I attended it myself and I thought it was a very good thing to see life and activity in the church again. I have a tough time believing that anyone in the community wouldn't be proud to see the lights on, the parking lot filled and a sense of life return to the property.
ReplyDeleteThe artists studios are wonnderful as well...again activity, energy, and LIFE have returned ot the property. There's a real sense of community and sense of renewed spirit that I feel everytime I'm up there.
Isn't that what anyone living nearby would want? Wasn't that what St Joes meant to the neighborhood in the past?
A few months back I visited the guys for Mark's 40th birthday party. At the party were a number of family members and friends, and part of those families were small children. As the day went on and we cut the cake, I couldn't help notice that all of the kids had made friends and they were running around the former church and having a great time. Isn't THAT what this is all about? A new generation of children taking root on that property, and a new community starting to form in Georgetown.
Regardless of what you may think, you HAVE to love seeing life return to St Joes.
reaglebeagle
ReplyDeleteHad to edit that one. Just a touch too personal for me to post and probably not helpful to the conversation.
Sorry if my comment was misconstrued. No matter how you viewed the pictures, you must have searched them out. And if they were on Facebook and Teach a Friend to Brew site, Mrs. C, you had to go searching for them if you normally don't frequent beer related sites. And if you are searching out sites for pictures of Breaker Brewing Company, quantitative reasoning says... you are looking to make trouble. Bottom line, Diocese moved on, sold the property , and you should too.
ReplyDeleteIm sorry. I thought that by trying to get the Diocese of Scranton to do what they should have done in the first place, was a logical idea, not "trying to tell the Diocese of Scranton what to do". As far as brewing beer in the former church..I don't find it offensive. I do find it offensive that the symbol that has been present during sacraments for years was still displayed. It has been a symbol for many generations of people getting sacraments from baptism all the way to funerals.Ms. Dinoski, it does affect me. It's where I received every sacrament from baptism to matrimony. I would have gladly gone to the former church to paint over the inscription and I still would be willing to do that.It's obvious that some people here can't have a decent discussion without attacking.It seems like people aren't reading or understanding my posts and seeing only what they want to see. I never said anything negative about the beer demonstration being in the former church, I never said anything negative about the art studios. I never said anything negative about the two families who purchased the property. My son bought a house in a quiet residential area that is now a commercial area. He has rights just like any of you. Living next to a brewery and brewpub is not the same as living next to the two families.I'm sure they're decent church going people as stated here.But they weren't going to be actual neighbors. Their business was.
ReplyDeleteJust have to say, a friend of mine told me to check out this issue that is going on. I am happy I did, the beer buzz site it great! Thanks mybeerbuzz, I'll be sure to check it out again.
ReplyDeleteI think religion is always a sensitive topic. Many people see things differently and many people have strict or polarized views of what religion means to them. I know the diocese removed everything they considered a religious artifact. That was part of the deal and I know they took that deal seriously. I'm not sure what it means that they chose not to remove or paint over the "My God My All" inscription. I think you'd have to ask the diocese what that meant or why they left it as they did. I know that inscription will not remain and as things progress it will be covered, but as someone said...financial priorities are what they are. I know the guys had to completely redo the heating systems in both structures and I know there were considerable other infrastructure problems that HAD to be addressed before winter. If your concern is that the inscription will somehow remain in the final plans, I can assure you it will not. I don't want to compare my thoughts and your religion in any way, but I would hope you'd find it comforting to know that as I described above that a new generation of children sat and played under that inscription just a few months ago...and a new generation of families are taking root in Georgetown. The lights are on again and there is life and activity at St Joes. Isn't that a good thing?
ReplyDeleteAs a resident of WB Twp(my entire life) and a former member of St. Joseph's I too was saddened when the diocese closed the church. Who do I blame? The Diocese of Scranton. Not anyone else. I also believe that the brewing company will be a much welcome stimulus to the neighborhood. It will bring people in as well jobs. It also does not matter what type of business moved into the building as they all would provide the same amount of traffic, people, noise etc. I, with everyone else do not understand why the appeal is being pursued, I understand the stance of the family wanting, "to do what's best for their little girl." However, she's moved into a new community,and its no longer, "in her backyard." So I for one feel that everyone should move on with their lives and perhaps become involved in their new community instead of pursuing this appeal when every single reason they have is now a moot point.
ReplyDeleteChildren sitting and playing under the inscription is comforting, of course. The issue was having a public beer demonstrating show under the inscription and I don't expect everyone to see things the same way, but to me it's such a sign of disrespect when all it would have taken was a flip of a paint brush.My concern now are the two large white crossed on top of the church.And I do think the Bishop should be concerned. And if it means, me "telling the Diocese of Scranton what to do", then so be it.
ReplyDeleteTimes change. You can either accept it or move. Your son chose the latter. Why is the problem continuing? I don't understand. Many churches have closed their doors and remain empty or have a new business move in. There is not much any of us can do about it. But to cause trouble for the new owners, that surely doesn't seem very Christian to me. The church is not coming back. It seems that they have removed anything of value or everything that they want from the church. If they didn't see fit to remove the remainder, why are you causing a problem about it? It's something you need to accept and move on and make other memories in a new one. There are many other things that could have moved into the property, some of them not so nice. Would you have preferred a Meth clinic or homeless shelter? Or have it remain empty and become over run with rodents? Your son moved. Case closed. I understand your concern when your son still lived there, but why are you continuing? He made his choice. Move on with your life. Hope his new neighbors never leave and they meet your standards, who knows who or what will move in. We can't predict the future nor do we have any control of it. Since all of the above has already taken place, wouldn't it be nice if you could wish the new owners "Good Luck" I wish the same for your son.
ReplyDeleteThanks you Mrs C. I know everyone involved doesn't see it that way at all. If your assumption was that anyone intentionally disrespected that inscription, I'd disagree. I believe your view of the inscription and the disrespect toward it were not at all what anyone involved was thinking. You have a long history with that inscription and it clearly has importance to you. To me personally I see it only as something left behind by the church and no different than anything else the diocese chose to left behind. I in no way mean that disrespectfully, I only mean to say that your view and the disrespect you apply to it aren't the same as the others involved. I'm sure paint will eventually cover it, and perhaps based on this conversation...it may be sooner. Would something other than a beer demonstration have been any different? Cooking, Arts & Crafts? woodworking? I only mean to ask if it is purely a brewing concern or if it a concern with anything other than religious ceremony going on under that inscription. Just crious and you certainly do not have to answer that.
ReplyDeleteNo one willingly accepts that the action of a neighbor could erode his/her property value. The property value of a home next door to a Church is inevitably going to be greater than next door to a brewery. Everyone gets that, right? So there was a legitimate concern based on eroded property value...Mrs. C's son was, at the time, concerned about the quality of life for his daughter but many would push back just on the worry of eroded property value. But since the home was sold to a knowing purchaser, this (as yet unmentioned) concern is no longer relevant, and hopefully if they have children there they would not share the concern that the previous owner held. I think the approval will come through if the establishment of a new artisanal manufacturing business employing local residents is valued. And with growth there will be more investment on the property and in brewery staffing. When was the last time any manufacturing enterprise started up within 4 miles of the place? I hope to make it there to offer my support as a fellow brewer, in the midst of our own startup in Pittston. Here's a nice perspective of small-scale manufacturing's strength and what it brings: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stacey-lawson/manufacturing-jobs_b_1256555.html and why I believe the community should support initiatives like Breakers Brewing Company.
ReplyDeleteThese last few posts from Cindy, Gtown friend and the others show so how much respect they have for their town and for the BBC guys trying to continue to get their business up and running.
ReplyDeleteLooks like the scale is continuing to tip toward BBC! I think Tuesday we will all see the real deal here people! Cheers to Beerbuzz for keeping up with these publications! Thanks!!!!
Thanks Jamie...we'll definitely get you up to visit Mark & Chris sometime. And thank you reaglebeagle...it's been a great discussion.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/stacey-lawson/manufacturing-jobs_b_1256555.html
ReplyDelete^^ In case anyone couldn't pull out the link Jamie posted.
ReplyDeleteTo be perfectly honest with you, and not to upset the apple cart here, it was the fact that it was involvement of alcohol being displayed under the inscription. The same as gambling in the temple when Christ upset the tables and forbid gambling in the house of God.I don't think an arts and crafts display or cooking demonstration can even be compared to making alcohol. It's not the same thing at all.I'm sure it wasn't deliberate. This is not an attack on the families.I suppose it was overlooked.
ReplyDeleteDear Mrs. C, If you saw some of late nights of the bazaars held on the property in previous years, a beer making demonstration was angelic in comparison. And no offense, but the Diocese is busy trying to sell other properties of closed churches. This property is sold and is no longer their concern. I doubt they will listen to your complaints.
ReplyDeleteThere was no deliberate disrespect at all. Your view and your respect of that inscription is not the same as others. That is neither their or your fault. Your view of alcohol is not the same as others and again it is neither your nor their fault. It's not my church and I am certainly an outsider, but my opinion is that wine, beer and alcohol have been part of religion and religious ceremonies for years. Trappist monks have brewed lenten beers on church properties for centuries. Your beliefs tell you it is unacceptable. Mine tell me it is perfectly acceptable and not an act of disrespect at all. If that inscription was covered in paint, would that change your view of that room and that area? If it were covered in paint would it no longer be disrespectful to demonstrate how to make beer in that room?
ReplyDeleteexactly. The room is just a room. The building is just a building.I'm not an alcohol hater. I drink beer! lol It's the fact that the Holy Spirit and the inscription were present...to me no different than if a large crucifix or any other religious article was present.To me it's black and white. Obvious.To me.
ReplyDeleteI am joining this discussion late. Does this Mrs. C also live next to the church/brewery? It sounds like the son moved, so I am not clear as to why there is an issue. Was the original township decision unanimous to approve the brewery? Sorry, just catching up. JG in Mt. Top.
ReplyDeleteI'll buy the ALL THE PAINT, someone just show up with some brushes and ladders. Anyone? Anyone?
ReplyDeleteThank you. It's helpful to know that. I'm also glad you see it's maybe not so black & white to everyone or at least that it isn't disrespetful if others don't see it exactly that way. I'm sure the inscription will see paint.
ReplyDeleteMrs C's son lived next to the brewery and has since moved. She & her husband do not live next door but do live in Wilkes-Barre Twp.
ReplyDeleteI am sure Mark & Chris will have no problem painting over the inscription.
ReplyDeleteWell some points being made here are eroneous on all counts. As soon as the tabernacle was moved out of that church God's (the Holy Spirit) whomever's presence was also removed..so therefore no presence of a deity was in residence during the home brewing activity...and reaglebeagle, you know where to find me so just knock on the door when your ready to paint I'll help.
ReplyDeleteI think the topic at hand is an appeal by someone who no longer lives in the "affected" property. It sounds like Mrs. C is upset about a few remaining religious references. Ed already moved, so that solves that issue. So if the inscription was painted over, the white crosses removed and the etched doors replaced, it sounds like there is no need to follow through with the appeal. Sounds like a plan to me. Maybe the guys from Breaker Brewing can do this, Collum family will be happy, and everyone can move on. Does that work Mrs. C? I'm curious what benefit you or your family receive by pursuing this?
ReplyDeleteFor the sake of accuracy I would like to Clarify this fact:...Mr.Edward Collum has never owned a property adjacent to a (church) in Wilkes Barre Township. Mr Collumn purchased his house several years ago in WB TWP and it sat approx. 40 feet from an abandoned four-room brick school building with broken windows and signs of vandalism already present. It was abandoned and derelict when he purchased his house and was abandoned and derelict, much in the same condition when he sold his house.
ReplyDeleteThe abandoned school is now being restored by Breaker Brewing Company.
Mr. Collum in the years he lived next to the abandoned school house, to my knowledge, never once voiced any concern for his or his daughters safety. He only voiced a concern after Breaker Brewing Company announced their plans to purchase,rehabilitate and restore the old abandoned schoolhouse. Why?
Mr. Edward Collum is no longer a legal resident of Wilkes Barre Township nor does he have a vested interest in any property in Wilkes Barre Township. Thank You...
Mrs. C. I guess no one can see your side because your son made his choice. He moved. Why are you continuing to complain. The Diosese chose to close the church and sell the building. Period. Bottom line---they sold it to who had the money to purchase it. Once the religious articles are removed it becomes just a "Building." It seems to me that the cross isn't a concern of the Diosese or they would have removed it. Give these poor guys a break and some time to address the issues. Rome wasn't built in a day!
ReplyDeleteThe guys at BBC should do what they need to do in the timeline fashion that was planned. Although I agree beerbuzz, it sounds like the guys would paint it in a heartbeat, but I wouldn't do it on account of "one" disgruntled resident.
ReplyDeleteGee, ReagleBeagle, do you think that painting over the inscription is going to stop the complaining. I'm sure it will get taken care of only for Mrs. C. not to be happy with something else. It's change (or should I call it Progress), and some people can't accept it. Where would we be if the world never had change, good or bad? We would never grow and learn.
ReplyDeletePart 1:-What a great discussion....so I'll throw in my 2 cents... This really is a shame that Ed Collum, who perjured himself (lying under oath) at the initial public hearing (a matter of public record), in his attempt to effect the outcome of that boards decision, would still be allowed by the township to continue on with this charade. The cost to WB TWP and BBC has been substantial. Ed Collum is no longer a resident of WB TWP. Since he committed perjury I would think that WB TWP would dismiss his testimony and dismiss this nuisance case. Perjury (Intentional or unintentional) is a serious matter...
ReplyDeletePerhaps Breaker Brewing Company & WB Township should invoice him for all the additional costs (thousands upon thousands of dollars) for additional surveys, court costs, attorneys fees, & 11 months of lost revenue to both parties while this matter sat in limbo.... I also believe everyone should have their say, but certainly not take out their personal abnormal religious anxities at the expense of WB TWP and private individuals. Please let a little common sense & justice prevail...
The company in question, BBC, has taken a completly derelict property that did not produce any tax revenue for WB TWP and put it back on the books. (The school house sat abandoned & empty for 11 years) They have cleaned it up, are in the restoration process and plan to do much more for the benefit of WB Township & themselves. The township officials have been extremely positive and the neighbors are very friendly. (and by the way, there are a 7 other neighbors whose yards butt up against the Breaker Brewing Property and 33 properties that face across the major streets from it!)
I believe that the current growth & expansion of a locally grown company such as Breaker Brewing Company, which bases it's success on our Anthracite Coal Mining Heritage and of course, great tasting craft beer, deserves the recognition and support they have been receiving from the local Radio, Television & Craft Beer Industry. Their Craft Beers are sold in restaurants & Pubs from Nicholoson,Jessup, & Scranton, down to Nanticoke & Mountaintop PA. They donate services to local events such as the Osterhout Library's 'Raising the Roof' fund-raiser in WB, PA, and the benefit for Lila Chernavage, a seven-year-old WB TWP township girl who suffers from epilepsy, which takes place today at the Wilkes-Barre Township Fire Hall on Watson Street.
Christian Miller and Mark Lehman, owners of BBC, are both upstanding citizens with impeccable credentials, They both possess the positive energy, drive, & attitude needed for success in any business. They are, simply put, a positive asset to WB TWP.
Part 2:-Anyone with Anthracite coal in their veins, heritage & background should be proud of these two young men & their families and come out on Feb 14th at 7PM at the Wilkes-Barre Twp. municipal building (150 Watson St) and show your support. Obviously you don't have to be a WB TWP resident to show your support--Ed Collum isn't!
ReplyDeleteOn another note: I mention this only because one of the owners Chris Miller would never play the games certain people are playing--Chris's own Great-grandmother Zelonis lies buried up on the hill in Georgetown's Holy Trinity Lithuanian Cemetery along with many cousins and his Great-Aunt Agnes, who was Monsignor Frank Yashkus's mother ... Chris has had Aunts, Uncles & cousins that have lived in Georgetown for over 80 years and some still live there today. His cousin, Monsignor Yashkus, knew and associated with the Franciscan Friars at St. Joseph's and spent his last days at Little Flower Manor ...I don't believe Chris or Mark are likely to bring any discredit on the former St. Joseph's.
As far as Ed Collum's mother sending demanding letters & photos to the Diocese of Scranton complaining about the remaining etched crosses in the glass doors of the church and a religious quote remaining above the alter of the church...I would simple say, for a person who has said she has religious concerns and doesn't wish to cause any trouble for anyone, SHE IS and HAS CAUSED A LOT OF UNNECESSARY TROUBLE in a very odd, Un-Christian way. And, by the way--beer is and has been brewed by the Friars in Monastaries for centuries, beer is sold at church bazaars, and also wine is given in church for communion...get the God/Beer/Wine connection? ...so if a few letters above a former alter area and a few etched crosses on the doors stay in the church (until it is remodeled into a pub) it's Ed Collums fault. !!! If BBC didn't have to spend all this time on this frivolus 11 month appeal caused by Ed Collum, then perhaps BBC would have already had their brew pub up and running by now !!!! (...and the doors removed and the slogan over the alter painted over!!) Ironic, isn't it, that Mrs. Collum doesn't recoginize that her concerns for the delay of the removal of these items are caused by herself and her own son's appeal???....
PS. Craft beer is not going to be brewed in the church but in the 11-year-abandoned schoolhouse, which by the way is starting to look pretty cool!
Cheers, Good Luck, and all the best to Mark, Chris & Breaker Brewing Company...AMEN & CHEERS!
Stashu...
Amen Stashu...thank you for part 1 and part 2. Ironic how sometimes things work out.
ReplyDeleteCheers!
Wow-not even knowing all of the details that Stashu posted, I agreed that the appeal was unnecessary. Now, after looking at some additional facts, the guys at BBC could probably seek damages in this. I'm sure they just want to move on, though. Can't wait for the opening! It sounds like Mrs. C's theories have just about jumped the shark.
ReplyDeleteWow...my vote goes to Stashu as MVP of this entire posting thread!!! I can't imagine how your comment will be criticized or topped by anyone! The BBC guys are a class act and "above" the whole revenge theory. I do however believe the old saying what goes around comes around! Amen and cheers to Stashu, BBC, and Beerbuzz!
ReplyDeletei think everyone needs to mind there own business and drink a beer..( make it a BBC)
ReplyDeleteI don't know what "theories" I had. I do know that my son did NOT lie under oath, that fact was already discussed here. So go ahead and try to come after him with your ridiculous accusations. He's a good person, just like Chris and Mark. And no, there are no neighbors butted up against the property as stated...they're against the parking lot. The church was still opened when my son bought the property. There were no signs of vandalism in the empty school building.This has gotten way out of hand and I have not attacked anyone personally on this site.You're a bunch of mean, vindictive people out for blood. On that note, have a wonderful weekend. Especially you,Mr. Woods.
ReplyDeleteActually Mrs C if you are referring to the Mr Woods that I think you are referring to, he has not been on my page at all and not part of ths comment thread at all. I believe you are confusing Stashu with someone else.
ReplyDeleteI wasn't referring to Stashu. Not that it matters. As far as Edward Collum and the benefit today for that sweet little girl......he IS donating to her cause, not that it's anyone's business. And MY relatives go back to the 1800's in the township, several of them being miners, some being teachers here, some being store owners and even one being a bar owner.Not that that matters either. I won't be posting anymore. It's of no benefit to anyone, just a bunch of bashing. Just try to stick to the REAL facts, people.
ReplyDeleteI thank you for posting Mrs C and I do think what's going on at the benefit today should put all of this into some perspective. I am confident it will all work out in the end and I do think Georgetown will be better for it. I will be updating this thread (perhapos with a photo or two) and I encourage you and everyone to check back. I have tried to let everyone talk freely without censoring anything but that doesn't always work I'm afraid. I think there is a lot of passion and a fair amount of frustration on the part of everyone who has been personally involved in this matter. Hopefully it will all be resolved very soon. In the mean time cheers to everyone for participating.
ReplyDeleteMean and vindictive describes a person who follows through with an appeal when it no longer applies to him. The one question you never answered, Mrs. C, is how following through with this appeal will benefit your son when he no longer lives at the property he claims was affected. In my book, that describes someone trying to be vindictive.
ReplyDeleteYes, REAL FACTS! The Real Fact that all this is happening b/c of the appeal from Ed Collum...and as they say..."Ed has left the building" (township)
ReplyDelete---> cue the snare and cymbal <---
Quote from Mrs C... "Just try to stick to the REAL facts, people."
ReplyDeleteHere are some "real" facts...
Fact: you son bought a piece of property next to a 6000 square foot brick building that was not in use and was naive enough to think it would never be used again.
Fact: He never took the time to have the property surveyed to find out was or wasn't his property.
Fact: He made claims under oath that his property line was 4 feet from the brick building:
Fact: after a survey (at the cost of the new owners)it turns out your sons property was well over 40 feet away from the brick building.
Fact: At least 2 times the new owners of the building offered at no cost to your son ..FOR FREE... the land in question...
Fact: Your son refused several hundred feet of property (for FREE) which could have potentially increased his property value.
Fact: Your son after the property was surveyed decided to put his house on the market and sell it.
Fact: Your son moved out and is no longer a property owner in WB TWP.
Fact: Your son continues to peruse this appeal as a non property owner in WB TWP
I think you need to look into the mirror and ask your self who the "vindictive person out for blood is"
A concerned citizen of WB TWP with the facts...
I don't know where you're getting your facts but it's a total lie that he was ever offered free land from anybody! He had his house up for sale BEFORE the land was surveyed! He didn't have the land surveyed because he took the word of the original owners and of their real estate agent. I really don't want to post here anymore but as long as the facts aren't straight I can't just let lies be added to the thread without correcting the information.
ReplyDeletequote from A concerned citizen of WB TWP with the facts.."Fact: At least 2 times the new owners of the building offered at no cost to your son ..FOR FREE... the land in question...
ReplyDeleteFact: Your son refused several hundred feet of property (for FREE) which could have potentially increased his property value.
Fact: Your son after the property was surveyed decided to put his house on the market and sell it."
these are false statements. You better check your sources. Please try to be truthful on this site.
Well it's an interesting thread going on. I will say that I've had a lot of information throughout the last year and I've been really close to everything that has transpired in the last 11-months relative to the purchase, zoning hearing, and pretty much everything that has gone on with this property over the last 11-months....including the property Ed ultimately sold. I'll leave it to everyone posting to correct the truth if they choose to do so, or stand by their version of the truth. I realize not everyone has had this sort of access and I realize that maybe people simply don't know what really happened OR were not necessarily told the truth. I'm confident the right thing will happen on Tuesday and I'm confident truth will win out. What saddens me the most is that the ultimate conclusion is likely to work well for everyone...yet no one seems to realize that.
ReplyDelete"This has gotten way out of hand and I have not attacked anyone personally on this site.You're a bunch of mean, vindictive people out for blood" -Mrs. Collum.
ReplyDeleteWhat hypocrisy!!!
I'm sure the Millers and the Lehmans can attest to my version of the truth on this matter.
ReplyDeleteLet me clarify... I AM NOT ED COLLUM!!! Just Ed.
ReplyDeleteYep,facts are coming Tuesday!(even though we know them at this point and have) It's just a shame these guys have had to wait this long on the account of one person. I am VERY interested to see if Ed. C shows for the meeting, now that he isn't a resident of the TWP. We all know the Mrs. will be there with bells on! I hope the same TWP residents who were supportive of Chris and Mark at the least meeting are there again!!
ReplyDeleteLet's all be REAL clear here. Everyone is welcome to attend the hearing on Tue, and regardless of their position, we should treat everyone with respect. I may not agree, but I would never want anyone to treat members of my family with disrespect and we should all agree to be respectful to everyone in attendance as if they are family. Ed & his family have legal standing to this appeal and as I said earlier this appeal will take place regardless of what they decide to do between now & Tue.
ReplyDeleteAhh...Mrs. Collum, you are incorrect. There are legal documents to support the truth. Please get your story straight........for once. All vindictiveness rests on the Collum family. You truly like to stir the pot. Thankfully, your efforts will prove to be fruitless.
ReplyDeleteto me it sounds like a couple of annoying neighbors (or Ex neighbors) need to get a hobby. too much spare time on your hands. try brewing beer.. and drink what you brew. you need to lighten up
ReplyDelete"I don't know where you're getting your facts but it's a total lie that he was ever offered free land from anybody!"
ReplyDeletehttp://alturl.com/4fa3f
"a total lie"..really... Apparently Mrs C "you" do not have all the facts.(this is becoming a trend)
...and I'm sure you were there at the court house when the lawyers exchanged the same conversation with the same offer as in the above posted letter...Oh yes, that right you weren't there. I Was.
Thanks,
A concerned citizen of WB TWP with the facts...
Mrs. Collum: you stated in your last post - 1. (I don't know where you're getting your facts but it's a total lie that he (your son Ed Collum) was ever offered free land from anybody!)
ReplyDelete2. (Your son after the property was surveyed decided to put his house on the market and sell it."these are false statements.)
I'm afraid it is true,Mrs Collum,your son was offered the land in question on April 12, 2011 & your son refused.The Breaker Brewing Company's Attorney has a copy of said letter that was sent to your sons attorney on April 12, 2011 with the offer. Whereupon your son obviously knew that the land was not his and then put his house up for sale on Sept. 21, 2011. Perhaps your son forgot to mention this fact to you.
Also when said parties met with the Luzerne County Court of Common Pleas Judge David Lupas, Breaker Brewing Company's attorney once again made the same offer to your sons attorney in front of witnesses.If you would like to see the letter I'm sure arrangements can be made to post it here on this blog. In any event it's starting to appear as though it's you who has not been truthful on this site. Public records show that your son's house was put on the market for sale Sept. 21, 2011
Stashu.
I don't think anyone other than Mrs. C has been mean and vindictive. I don't care if others property butts up against the property discussed. Who cares if their property is next to the parking lot or next to the vacant school. Your son has cut his losses and moved on and as you stated "above posting on this subject". You are angry because you didn't get what you wanted. Take your toys and go home. It is NO LONGER a church. It was an empty building that was for sale. Sorry your choice of owners (business) didn't purchase it. Maybe you should have.
ReplyDeleteI am a former member of St.Joseph's. I attended CCD in the brick schoolhouse, and received many of my sacraments while the church was functioning.
ReplyDeleteIt was heartbreaking to see the church dissolve after having so many pivotal moments of my life take place there. It would be easy to hold on to the the past, and become angry at the current occupants for their perceived " disrespect".
The truth of the matter Mrs. C, is that it's no longer the place you remember. Some of the symbols may still be present but they are just the physical reminders of the spiritual connection you held.
You seem to have a much stronger connection to the property that your son ever had. Perhaps you are the driving force behind this bitter dispute. Is is possible that your son has moved on (physically and emotionally) and is maintaining the argument for your sake?
I think you should take a moment and search your heart, if you do I think you will find that St. Joe's still exists.
And while you're searching, try to find a place to allow new friends into a community that so desperately needs something uplifting.
Cheers!
KEW
none of this information was ever forwarded to my son. This is the first he's hearing of it. How could anyone offer him the land when it wasn't even surveyed till after summer? I don't understand. Why would he wait till sept. to sell the house if he knew about the property in april? That's five months later.And how could anyone offer him the land again when he was already out of that house? The first time he knew about the property line was when the surveyers placed orange flags all over the property.
ReplyDeleteI just spoke to my son again...his so called lawyer never told him any of this. If he knew, he would have accepted the offer. And he never was told about the property line, as I stated he didn't know until the fall when the orange flags and tape were in place.
ReplyDeleteSorry to hear it...it sounds like maybe Ed wasn't given great info from his lawyer or real estate agent. Hopefully he has some new info now....for whatever it's worth at this point.
ReplyDeleteEddie's so called lawyer is going to be answering alot of questions on monday. Something's not right here. And I swear, I am telling the truth. Eddie's very upset about this and had no idea that any offers were being made. Everything could have been so much different. I can't even believe this is happening and crazy as it sounds, I'm glad it was brought out in the open here. We never would have known any of this otherwise.
ReplyDeleteHopefully it all works out. We'll be very curious to hear what happens Monday.
ReplyDeleteOMG! Seriously! No clue?? Ed had no clue? His lawyers steered him wrong? Wow...is all I need to say. God bless everyone at this meeting Tuesday. All I know is there better be some celebratory BBC flowing at the conclusion of the meeting! Wow...
ReplyDeleteI printed the first letter that Stashu posted. He did mention another letter available. Could he please list this one so that I can copy it too? It would be a big help. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteHind sight is 50/50. I agree with KEW. It seems your son has moved on. How does he feel about you continuing this argument? What does he say about all of you posts? Could it be that part of your problem is that your son moved and is no longer living so close to you? You seem to be very bitter. Mark and Chris didn't lie to you, yet you are taking all of your fustrations of this matter out on them. You said it was your son's attorney, real estate agent, the Diosese (your not happy with what they left behind. None of this has anything to do with Breaker Brewery yet they are being punished for what others did. Why are you making them the scape goats for the rest? I also hope you find it in your heart to give them a chance and welcome them to the neighborhood.
ReplyDeleteMrs. C,
ReplyDeleteThe second offer was a verbal offer directly after the Luzerne County Court of Common Pleas hearing. I'm sure attorneys Stephen Menn & William Higgs will attest to this conversation.
If what your saying ...that you son had no knowledge of the offer from the new owners, I believe you & your son have some very serious issues to take up with the lawyer or possibly someone else involved with the situation.
That being said I believe the olive branch that the new owners extended to your son was truly a kind and respectful act and shows that they were more than will to work with your him.
Thank You,
A concerned citizen of WB TWP with the facts...
Things seem a little more clearer now. I'm sure Mrs. C and her family would have been a bit more accepting of the new neighbors if they knew about the offer. This might explain the passionate argument on both sides...the Breaker Guys were probably upset because they made a fair offer to Ed and were refused......Ed was upset because of the property dispute---but if he had all of the info from his lawyer, he may have changed his view knowing that the Breaker guys were trying to work with him. Sounds like miscommunication or bad/no info from his lawyer. And that is unfortunate for Ed...I'd be upset with my lawyer in this case!
ReplyDeleteyes, reaglebeagle, his lawyer steered him wrong. And it's very upsetting.
ReplyDeleteI wrote a comment but don't see it here. I just wanted to say that yes, it was a "kind and respectful act" for the BBC guys to offer the property. And it's horrible that the lawyer never communicated that fact to my son. And yes,we do have a serious issue to take up with the lawyer.I misunderstood one of the posts, I thought there was another letter.I wanted Ed to hand them to the lawyer. And I also posted but don't see it here that the poster saying maybe it's me pursuing this, you couldn't be more wrong. I was staying out of this the past several months and only came here to defend my son about the property line when everything mushroomed. I'm certainly not bitter about him moving further away from me. lol He's only a few minutes further.
ReplyDeleteDear Mrs. Collum:
ReplyDelete#1. you have stated that the original owners lied to Edward about the property line when he purchased the house.
#2. you stated that the first real estate agent selling the house lied to Edward.
#3 you stated that Edward's Attorney mis-led or lied to him.
#4 you stated that the second real estate agent lied and said Chris Miller & Mark Lehman of BBC were friends with the new owner.
#5 you said you have nothing against Brewing beer in a church.
#6 you said you have nothing against Chris & Mark BBC personally and you were sure they & their families were very good people.
These are all secondary issues...the main issue being why was an appeal filed in the first place and by whose suggestion?
There is something missing from this puzzle...It just doesn't add up.
I am quite sure of the fact that Edward did not create this nuisance suit on his own... In fact I know he didn't...Edward was used as a tool and was mis-led at the urging of another, much older person in the township, who had delusions of once again becoming Mayor of Wilkes Barre Township.This person has already stated Ed did what he did on his urging & advice.
In the beginning I believe Edward's council represented them both. I suspect it was this elderly person that received the letter from Ed's attorney by mistake with the land offer and he buried it without telling Ed.This of course is simply a guess.
I don't believe your son Edward is the culprit he is being made out to be. I have seen & met Edward and I am pretty good at sizing people up quickly. He is not a bad guy...I sincerely believe he is a Victim , the same as Chris & Mark of BBC, & the WB TWP. zoning board are victims. I also believe you are pretty much a concerned & loving mother coming to the defense of her son.
I have met the elderly person I'm referring to and I'm quite sure he is having a good laugh at all the trouble he has caused at Edward's, Breaker Brewing Company and the zoning board's expense. He knows all the legal loopholes and knows how to cause trouble & delays...He has let everyone else do the dirty work...Everyone is his victim .
These are facts. Your son Edward was being used as a tool by a wicked, dishonorable, elderly man, posing as a friend, who originally instigated this whole fiasco with Edward.
Now is the time for you to advise Edward to do the only Honest & Honorable thing. I would suggest he not appear at the zoning board hearing and the case will automatically be forfeited and dismissed.
I'm sorry Edward sold his home and moved.I'm sorry everyone is so angry, but as I said I believe we are all victims of a devious elderly person here.
Thanks for reading my opinion...
Stashu.
Thank you so much, Stashu. You have no idea how much I wanted to bring this up, about the "elderly person". I have been leary of all of this since the beginning. I am so glad that you see Eddie for who he is. You have no idea.Only one correction to your post...the real estate agent was the same in both instances, not two different ones. She was the real estate agent for the former owners and sold the house to my son. And she was Ed's real estate agent when he resold the house. I actually couldn't believe he went with her.And believe me, I'm trying as hard as I can to advise Eddie..but he does have a mind of his own and I can only do so much.I am so grateful to you for bringing up the "elderly man". Ed doesn't come here to read the posts. I wish he would.
ReplyDeleteyour theory,Stashu, is that the "elderly man" might have gotten the letter by mistake. But my son used to call the lawyer on occasion to see what's up and the lawyer NEVER mentioned the offer. The lawyer never made calls, Ed always had to do the calling.Did the zoning board know about the offer, do you know? I wish someone would have said something, not that it's their place to, but if only we could have known.
ReplyDeleteWell, it seems as though there is a 3rd side to this story. I hope now that the lettering is removed, Mrs. C can see what decent and honorable people that Mark and Chris are. Give them time and everything will be right with the world in Gtown again.
ReplyDeleteCall the lawyer on "OCCASION" to see "what's up?" Wow...in a legal matter of this nature I would be asking for written documentation, signatures, dotted i's and crossed t's fom day 1 of this whole predicament!
ReplyDeleteWEll Beerbuzz I hope you have a strong bacth of joe on for the next 2 days! Good Luck!!
Its pretty obvious to me why the Wilkes Barre-Scranton area has such high unemployment and no jobs. Its because people oppose business and opportunity unless its on a strip mall. Here is something that can revitalize a neighborhood being challenged by someone who moved to some other shanty town nearby. Sincerely, your friends in Monroe County who would love this place and support it.
ReplyDeleteNever thought Ed was a bad person. He was indeed truly concerned for his daughter, and that is admirable. He really didn't have anything to worry about, but acting as a concerned parent is understandable. This third party involvement is too bad...being from the area, I think I know who that refers to. Well, cheers anyway, to all of the changes going on. Hope it works out for everyone. Hearing more sides to this pieces things together!
ReplyDeleteThanks everyone...I'll happiily keep the conversation going as long as you all like. I'm hhappy to do it and I think the conversation on here has gone a long toward making everyone have a better understanding of the situation AND the failies involved.
ReplyDeleteshanty town?
ReplyDeleteI don't know if this thread is still opened or read by anyone...but I wanted to write one last time before tonight's meeting. We all know which way it's going to go.I have taken the brunt of everyone's anger and I suppose that's what mothers do for their kids. On my behalf I'd like to say I was never the one pursuing this as some think.It's been a hard and eye opening experience and time consuming...and heartbreaking.I'm taking advice from here and I'll be "taking my toys and going home",I'll be finding "a new place to pray"(other thread) I'll be "get(ting) a hobby", I'll "move on with (my) life" etc etc etc. For my own well being I have to say I don't care what my son does at this point.He has his own mind and no matter what people might think, I don't have influence over him. I don't care what the useless lawyer does at this point. I don't care what the crazy ruthless elderly person does at this point.( I despise the day he came into my son's life)I was there to support my son and his choices, not to pursue or promote the recent appeals.I don't care what the zoning board does at this point.And I certainly don't care what the Diocese of Scranton does at this point. I'm going to put all of this behind me and I'm going to enjoy my children and grandchildren.One last thought, there have been a few people here who respectfully supported Chris and Mark.And I'm glad my eyes were opened to the dishonesty that went on. If it weren't for this site we never would have known. And there were those who...well...just liked to send personal attacks that had no significance on anything.If those are the kind of people that the brewpub will be attracting, I'm glad my son and granddaughter moved out.I won't be back here so I won't see any responses, negative or otherwise..I took enough abuse to last a lifetime, but I wish mybeerbuzz a happy life and a heartfelt thanks for the opportunity to voice my opinions and for buffering the conversations. You're a true gentleman.
ReplyDeleteMrs. C.
Thanks Mrs C & good luck with everything.
ReplyDeleteThanks beerbuzz....great moderator for an interesting topic! I'm sure the guys at BBC are just as happy that Ed moved out. If he was the type of person that would only attract negativity for the area, that is not some one you want next to a wholesome, prosperous business. Happy Valentines Day to all!
ReplyDeleteThanks Anon. Hopefully in the end it will work out for everyone.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.accessmylibrary.com/article-1G1-129483889/complainer-told-clean-his.html
ReplyDelete"crazy ruthless elderly person" Hahaha You mean Abe Belles...The wanna be... self proclaimed Mayor of W-B Twp. Didn't he get like 4 votes in the election! HA!
This old nut has nothing better to do that troll around causing problems in W-B Twp
-just sayin'
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/article-1G1-129483889/complainer-told-clean-his.html
ReplyDeleteAs mrs. C. stated-"crazy ruthless elderly person" Hahaha You mean Abe Belles...The wanna be... self proclaimed Mayor of W-B Twp.
Yes Anonymous, the elderly person spoken about is Abe Belles and he has caused one hell of a lot of trouble & expense for Wilkes Barre Township, Mrs. Collum, Edward Collum and his daughter,& Breaker Brewing Company, all in his efforts to seek revenge on the Wilkes Barre TWP. zoning board for past grievances.
Mr. Belles was observed today going door to door in Gtown trying to incite residents to come out this evening and protest the past actions of the zoning board. All of this from a slum lord who owns a vacant, rat infested, slum property, covered with trash on the front porch and yards, only two houses away from the former St. Joseph's and the current Breaker Brewing Co. What a %$@$&^*(($#!!! Hope WB TWP. can put a stop to him & this gross injustice...